Modern Australian Underground

David Forcier on CIVIC and "Reckless #2" punk photozine

Episode Transcript

Hey, welcome back to the modern Australian underground. I'm your host Christina path and on the show today I'll be talking to David foreseer Davies from Quebec, Canada and move back then mid last year after living in Melbourne for the past five years. After moving to Melbourne and knowing though on, he broke into the Melbourne punk scene by taking photos of bands that shows and started drumming in proto punk pub rock band civic, they've gone into release records through anti fade total pounds and flightless records. He's about to release a second issue of these photos in reckless, the launch of which is happening at Lulus on Sunday the 14th of February 2021. It comes with a mixtape of random songs chosen by the bands featured in the name. I'm not playing mixtape songs on the show, but we'll be playing a bunch of songs by bands that are featured in this new issue of reckless the tracklist available to check out on the episode page over at Litmus dot media. We talk about the launch as well as what was happening when he moved to Melbourne. getting to know people in the same day voters joining civic a bunch more right now on the modern Australian underground

so I'm living in, in Quebec, Canada, sort of like an hour from Montreal in the woods. I got kicked out of Australia, sort of, because of visa problems, like at the beginning are like sort of midway through the pandemic. So I'm kind of just stranded here. I'm living with my family temporarily. And that's kind of where I'm at.

You're in Canada. Now. Your whole journey with Australia started in Canada. When did you like move to Australia? And what do you remember happening around the time in your life that led up to you making the decision to move to Australia?

When did I move? So it was about five years ago? Yeah, Nov five years ago. And I think that my main thing was just like, I was so sick of winter here that I just decided at some point to be like, you know what, I need to get away from this for this for at least one winter because I can't handle this shit. And then just kind of looked into visa options and stuff. And I, I guess the main reason was that and then also, like, it was a place where I knew that music would be good. And it was just like, I had started getting into like, whatever bands like I guess it sort of started with, you know, like, catching wind of total control shit happening currently, and then sort of digging around and being like, Oh, this city seems great for the exact thing that I'm into. So yeah, I just winged it and moved didn't know anyone and five years later, just ended up Kind of calling it my home, which is sort of strange to think about because I'm actually in my home now, but it doesn't really feel like home.

I guess you live a pretty different life to everything that we're talking about now, but I was gonna ask you. Okay, so coming to Australia, like when did you start taking photos and coming to Australia? Did you say did you see it as a way to be able to, like interact with people talk to people get to know them collaborate and like, get involved in some sort of music scene?

Yeah, I think I think all of that kind of, I started taking photos, like sort of as I was living in Europe at the time, and I always knew that I could do it because I was just like, all you see people doing is like, I could do that. As it turns out, like it takes a while to get good at like, anything that's worthwhile doing. But yeah, so eventually, I just started doing it all the time, and just gave me something to do at shows that wasn't just, you know, watching. Yeah, I'm doing when I came to Australia, yeah, it was, it was definitely all that, like, I knew that. Like, I didn't know anyone, right, like, like I said before, it's like, I knew one person. And they weren't really in a scene really. So I was just like, I had to go on my own and figure it out. So I just started going to gigs and taking photos. And it was just this other thing that I had that it gave me something to talk about, at least and, and I knew that I was documenting something, something that was like a bit interesting as well, because coming from where I was coming, like the music scene wasn't that particularly interesting to me anymore. Really, I had sort of just been like, you know what, I could just take or leave this, you know, but then going to Melbourne, it was just like there was you know, there was gigs every fucking every day, pretty much and every weekend, there was something really good. And it was always it was bands that I knew about that I was just like, That's crazy. I get to see this band Finally, because it's all the way over here, but it would be at the front bar or something. And I was like, This is insane to me that this even happens. Like all the all the gigs at the end at the toad front bar at the labour in vain. Like, that's just like not really a thing, like around here or anything that I was used to especially like bands that I've liked. So yeah, like, and yeah, like I said, it just gave me something extra. So I was just like, you know, I had a way to, you know, message people after and be like, Hey, I got some photos of you. And it was just like a good way to introduce myself to people that wasn't just like, Hey, I'm a guy drinking a beer. Do you want to have a conversation? You know?

Well in saying that explain why you think taking photos is still important in age where everyone has a phone with a good camera and like what makes what you do so different?

Well, the the thing about it is, I mean, it's so easy to take a photo, right? Like anyone can take a photo with their phone, like you say, but and even. I guess, to be honest, like the camera phone is probably better than the camera that I'm using at this point as well. And that was like a thing that I consciously did, it was just like, I stopped upgrading gear because I like I basically just had like a couple point and shoot film cameras and then like a digital SLR, but it's like a really old one. And it's like got less megapixels than like an iPhone three or something. That but that's part of the whole thing where I was just like, I set limitations for myself so that I knew what range I could work in and then sort of just developed like, the aesthetic around that as opposed to, to just being like, Oh, I have a Xen coming out. And it's just photos from my fucking phone, you know, like, Yeah, no, like, that's, that's not really a thing. And, and in terms of, like, why it's important, I think, like, everything should be sort of documented. So we can, like look back on things and not look back on it through this lens of like weird technology, you know, like, yeah, like having some sort of, like physical thing is important in some way. You know, like,

it's just like buying a record versus like having the Spotify or whatever. It's like,

I was gonna say, I mean, we're all still making records, right? And if it was just for the sake of listening to music, then why? Why would we be like melting down all this wax and like shipping it all over the world? You know, there's clearly a demand for like, physical things. And I suppose it applies the same to photography or whatever other medium that you're trying to express yourself in. Yeah. Like, like, it's like buying a painting, it's just like, you're not going to just go on Google and find the best painting and print it and hang it up on your wall. Although I think people probably do that. But you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, the value is in the,

in the detail of

the journey, the uniqueness and like the medium it's in and all those things, and it definitely applies to photography as well as, as far as I think anyway.

What did the first like did the first one have like a specific focus and like that's different to this one now?

Um, I think that the first one was, I made a point to just make it only Australian bands, because it just made more sense because it was just like the sort of it wasn't a new thing to me at that point, because it was still three years after I moved there. But yeah, the first one I just made all Australian because I was like, Oh, this will be its own thing. You know, and I didn't need that. To add in all I like other touring bands and artists that had been around because it just didn't seem like it was that important at the time, especially because it was like a bands that I'd mostly seen before Anyway, you know, like, yeah, other points in time in my life. The new one is like, I mean, it's still mostly Australian shit, but it has like, I just didn't limit it to that, because I was just like, there was a bunch of like, photos that I had kicking around that I just really wanted to have out there because I thought they were really good. And there was like, no other way to release it, you know, like, so like, there was like some photos of gooseberry that were like, high grade from that, that that one show where straight jacket played and the toad like that one time, there's a bunch of other randoms touring stuff, but nothing. The main, the main focus is still Australian bands. But

having like, even a theme like that, it's um, that in itself is a snapshot of time. You know what I mean?

Well, yeah, like, I didn't do it on purpose, obviously. But like, I've no one knew what was gonna, what the world was gonna be like, you know, in 2020. But it's a pretty good, it's a pretty good like, book ended version of like, what music was sort of like over a three year period leading up to that, and I don't know if it'll ever really go back to the same as it was. And I'm sure there's plenty of venues that don't ever going to open. So it's kind of like this, this weird, like, nostalgic thing now or like, when if you look through all the photos, you're like, well, that won't happen again for a while, you know, but it's so confusing. And even going through all the photos from the book. There's point like this, there's some really great photos of like, I must have been like, lowlife at maggot fest or something like that, where there's like, the crowd shots are pretty wild, because everyone was just going apeshit. And like seeing that now you're like, that doesn't seem right. Like that's not even legal. Yeah.

Did you ever do anything similar in Canada regarding releasing a folder, Zayn, and also, I guess you kind of already answered this, but like, Yeah, what is the difference in like, you've noticed, going to shows in Melbourne versus shows in Canada. In terms of like, bands, General rocking,

I wanted to do like a, like a photo Xion for a long time was ever this like, insane backlog of photos, because I've been taking photos of shit since like, 2006 or something when I was living in the in, in the UK. So there's this massive backlog, and I just never knew what to do with it because it just didn't, can be fucked or whatever, you know, it was like too busy doing other shit. But I kind of knew that I wanted to do something, but like, from going to melons, I was like, I no one knows me here. I can just like be this guy. You know, like, and get the photos. You know, there was no like, weird. I don't know, like, I I feel like I've made a lot of progress in my like, personal, like mental health as well over time. I was just like, you know, as a very depressed for a long time. So I just didn't want to do anything. You know, I was just like, everyone hates me or you know.

We all love you, Dave. Thanks.

What was the other part of that question? Oh, the difference between gigs. I mean, it's been so long I can fucking barely remember. I mean, I've played so much. And it's just I don't know, I, I don't I could go down a down a rabbit hole of like, really negative shit, which I don't necessarily want to do. But yeah, yeah, I just got sick of like, the music. Just like the jet like the actual music coming out of like, where I was from, I was just like, this is just like, it was all like fun, like power poppy kind of shit. And it's just not really my thing. And it just didn't really have a lot of I just didn't have a lot of substance to it. And like in terms of like, people's actual technical ability or like, what, like how much they knew what they wanted, it was just like, this massive amount of confusion or at least like everyone in Melbourne, just like that was what they want and do it. You know, it is weird is like some music can sound like there's so many different things happening. But everyone's got intent, which I think is really important. I mean, if you don't have intent, you're just like this wash of like, you know, your music sounds like it was made by an algorithm or something.

Yeah. So, which I mean, Australia does have that, but we also do have good music.

But there's so there's so much like, rich, rich, like music culture from Australia, you know what I mean? Like, the, like, the music that people were into, like, like, let's say like, quote unquote, like our parents, like would have been into like, Good shit, because it was just like the normal the norm, you know, like, that's my impression of it anyway. You know, it wasn't weird for people to be into the saints if they weren't even really that into punk, you know, like that kind of thing. Like ever or, like so much of that. Whereas here like, I don't want this to sound like I'm like bagging out fucking Canada because it's like, Canada's great for its own reasons, but like, you know, music history of whatever stuff I'm into is just kind of like, like, what do you mean you know, like, fuck Neil Young, which I do, but you know what I mean? Like, it's just like, like, cool. What else do we have? Yeah, like this, if there's a few, like, I mean, you know, like the vile tones, or like, there's plenty of like good punk bands, but it's just not as common and to be honest, and just not as good.

Like, I've seen your photos. Yeah, I looked through the first wreckless. And, like something I love about your photos is that it really, you know, we're here we're playing in these bands. But like, I feel like the way that you have your photos and the way that Yeah, the photos, you bring them together makes, basically just brings all of us together outside of that thing. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like it really creates you've created community in a Xen through your photos. What are some of your favourite memories of taking photos in Australia? Maybe like specific shows or people you've worked with?

I mean, I don't really. I was gonna say, I don't really work with anyone. But I mean, a couple times, I've been asked, like, with, like, maggot Fest, or whatever. Like, they would always just be like, oh, like, you know, just, are you coming? You know, making sure I come because everyone wants photos. You know, it's not work. But it's just like, this idea of people actually appreciating something and understanding the documenting things. And I guess, like, the way that I take photos is more of like, documentary style. That's, as opposed to being like, really stylistic, you know, and then it goes in, in part with what I was saying before about limitations. You know, it's just like, I know where I'm where I sit with my limitations of what I'm taking, you know, so yeah. I guess there's, there's, there's been points where I like wall taking photos of like, some insane night or something. Like, I knew that it was something that was like, Oh, this will be remembered for a long time. There's a bunch of those, like, throughout the books. Yeah. Both of them. Were people be like, you know, the classic thing of people being like, oh, like, were you at this thing were so and so did it, like some crazy thing happened. Like, I remember in the first book, there was like, some photos a lowlife. And it might have been at magnet Fest, I know, there was at the tote, but it was just like the fucking wild this gig. And there was like, people were bleeding all over the stage, because it was broken class, like all over the place. And it just like, I just felt like, it was important to sort of capture the sort of moments in time and especially now, like I said, before, it's like, I don't know when we're going to be able to like, not to say that that's good, that people are bleeding everywhere, you know, but it's, but it's still something that happened. It's part of culture. And I think it's important to like, have those things. Otherwise, we're just insane with like photography shade. It's just like, if you don't have people doing interesting stuff with photos, or creating their own, like style or whatever, then you just end up with a bunch of wedding photographers that are just all their photos look the same and you can't even tell the difference between them because everyone's got the best equipment and etc, etc. That just makes everything fucking bland and boring.

When in that little thing you sent me a little press release? You mentioned that the photos you've taken the foreigners as an outsider, but have you always viewed yourself as an outsider?

I guess kinda Yeah. Like, I mean, I've got my own issues with, like self identity and stuff like that, I think in part because of where I grew up, and what where I currently am but yeah, like living sort of in between provinces and languages has always been sort of weird and like not knowing where to fit in. And it's like, it's, it's, it's something that I'm definitely used to at this point, you know, like, I remember growing up, like, not being not being French enough for the French people, but then not being English enough for the English people and then kind of just being like, Alright, well, this is fucking weird. But yeah, like moving to Melbourne and all that I was like, it was just so obviously an outsider, because I didn't know anyone you know, and not to say that I was like, trying to be like, look at the cool ads side or whatever the fuck, but it was just just by default. I was like, I didn't know anyone. You went places. And you're like, I remember that person from a different. I remember, the funniest thing about moving development was just thinking that everyone was so nice. I was like, Why is everyone so fucking nice here? And then it took it took like, like a year to just be like, Oh, wait, it's not that everyone's nice. You just didn't know that everyone was an asshole. Which is also not true. But you know what I mean? Like, there's a lot of like, politics stuff that goes around that you don't know about when you I mean, you have the same thing. When you move to Toronto, you're probably like, wow, everyone's so great here. And then after like a year or two, you're like, Oh, wait, there's issues that I was just completely unaware of.

Can you tell me about the launch of the first one? And then tell me what what's coming like what you're doing for the second

one? Yeah, when the first one came out. I think I just like just went for the easiest way to do it. It was just like, I was working at the train my hotel at the time. I was like, Can I launch this thing here? Yeah, and who did I get to play? I got two bands. Oh, yeah, I got rabbit, rabbit dogs and spotting to play and then sort of just launched it there. Because it was just like, easy and whatever. But for this one it was I mean, I'm obviously where the fuck over here. So I had to I don't know, I just like having the message Oscar. He had. It worked out really weird because I messaged him being like, Hey, I'm about to like get this news book thing printed like and he's I know that he's like, done a few himself or whatever. And I basically was just asking for someone to like, pick it up and like, drop it off at places. And then he was just like, actually funny that you mentioned that because I actually just started a publishing company. He's I'd be interested in doing it. So I MLM publishing. I think he's only he's only just started. So he's just done the one his own book. And then he's got a bunch of other stuff coming up. But yeah, so it was just like, I randomly messaged him to just be like, Oh, can you give me a hand? And then he was like, I'm interested in doing this. So he's actually been like, doing a bunch of the backend work, which is great. And sort of handling all that shit. And yeah, so the, I was trying to work out what to do, like I was should do something. So I just basically hit like, Oscar just went to the loo or I went to lose and was just talked to Coco and was like, would you be interested in doing this? So now they're sort of like planning this whole thing. So there's a launch on the 14th of fab in the afternoon, I think it is actually lose, which I won't be at which

Okay, so Is mom publishing the only place it's publishing them? Or is it getting done in Canada? Oh,

I think it Yeah, I was just gonna just do the one thing. I mean, it already got, like, bigger than I wanted it to go in the first place anyway, because I just, I was just gonna do this thing on my own because this is what I'm used to doing with sort of everything, you know, being like, the I don't know, I don't even know how many copies he's made. I don't even think it's printed yet. But they've sort of just, I don't know, Oscars just like handle it all the other stuff. So we're, we ended up doing a lot more than I intended to, which is great, because it just means that more people will see it. And I think it's an important, you know, it's like, like I've said it a bunch of times already, but who knows when things will be I mean, quote unquote, normal, but I don't think it'll be anytime soon. Like even even now there's there's gigs and stuff, but it's not like it was and yeah, not necessarily bad. It's just like, it's just different.

Yeah, no, it definitely their gigs starting to happen again here. But everything's like half capacity or something at the moment, which is so great that we can start doing gigs again. But yeah, there's definitely like, I mean, you know, especially being involved in punk music, people are very wary about, you know, no one's going to be crowd surfing or, like, clump together, push each other around, you know, it's definitely talked a bit about your Xen. And like, when I do an outro, like, re announced, like the date and where people can buy it and stuff like that. This interview is mostly for you, Zane. But I figured while we're at it, like we might as well talk about civic a bit, for sure. You move to Melbourne, you know, anyone, but then you got involved, like you started civic, who now have like an album coming off a pretty good, independent Australian label, which is a lot more than other people can say they've done in five years. Do you want to just maybe go over how you met people from knowing only like one person creating civic, and where you're at now? civic era?

Yeah, no, I was gonna say, Well, I didn't create it. I mean, it was kind of a thing without me for a brief period of time. The way it started, because I mean, I say that I didn't know anyone, which I didn't. But I also like ended up having to sublet somewhere to live. And I ended up subletting into a place where Lewis Hodgson was living. So like the guitar player from civic, so I lived with him for a couple years before baby and before civic started, because he was doing other stuff at the time. And then I think he just found himself in a spot where there wasn't really much going on. And he started rehearsing with, with Jim and Roland, who I and Darcy, I guess, at the time, and like, I knew, I knew I knew Jim for a while to just randomly through like people I'd met. And anyway, I think they started before me, I think Louis was on drums. And then after a while, he's like, hey, do you want to come by like, it's just not. He's like, he knew that I'd be a bit better because it's kind of like, my main thing. And yeah, so then we just kind of, I don't know, it's just like a, like, the Civic like, starting story is not particularly interesting, because it's the same is like the average one, you know, just like, Oh, yeah, like, we started playing music together and kind of just worked. And then he's, you know, like, it is what it is, but was like, the thing is, like, we've been going for like, what, three years now? We just were like, we're work really well together.

Well, I mean, three years, like, I mean, that's great.

Yeah, was the thing. Like, I mean, it's like we've, I mean, I've been in a lot of bands that don't do fucking anything in three years, you know, like, the amount that we have done is pretty good. And I can, like, I can still back all the music that we've put out, like, from day one, like, it's all been great. And I think that's in part by a bit of like, you know, us being fucking psychos about like, I think mainly being an lunatic about being in control of like, what squat and over obsessing about stuff and getting people to like, the recordings, like do takes over and over. Like, I know that Jim would, at some points, I was like, he's gonna fucking kill me if he has to do this vocal tic again, but he has to do this vocal tic again. And there was a lot of that on the new record. And, I mean, it seems like a pain in the ass while you're doing it, but I like almost always you look back fondly about it. And you're like, I can't wait to record another record, even though at the time I was like, there was times where I was like, I want to kill myself, because this is driving me nuts. Like most, like things can be bad, and you can still look fondly on them. I mean, like, you know, there was points in time on tour, not even just with civic where I was just like, fucking get me out of here. You know, and I think everyone goes through that a bit. But like, at the end of the day, you're still doing something that's, I mean, it sounds stupid to even say like, oh, but adding to culture or something because like, half the time you're just drinking beers and fucking not knowing what the fuck you're doing. But but it is though. I mean, like, we're all Sort of adding something. It's not nothing, you know?

So what did like what was gonna tell me a bit about the record coming up like when it was recorded and like your involvement in it? Yeah, so

I think it's coming out in March we started recording it's so long ago like has it's been sort of slow moving abroad, we were all just busy we were out we also toured a lot and like, cut like we did, we got, like flown out to France to play like a one off game, you know, like, there's just like a button. Yeah, exactly. So there's like, all this like, random stuff that sort of, like slowed things down a bit. But that was all like, fine. And I think the timeline actually made sense. Because if it had, if it had come out, like when it was finished, we would have just sat on it, and no one would have even noticed, because everyone's in COVID anyway, but anyway, yeah, so we started recording it like, fucking two years ago or something. And we went into the old Bakehouse studio with Phil john Fredo and lay down some sort of bed tracks there. And then from that, at some point, we went to the flightless studio and it was at the old spot, I got a new one now. Then we'd lay down some more beds there. And then we'd like I basically just like recorded the rest, and just built up the whole record over a bunch of different spots and like, a bunch of different gear and, you know, pining over things and being like, I don't think it's right, we got to do it again. And just doing things over and over and just making essentially, like what we thought would be a perfect record. That felt, I guess our thing was just like, we wanted to do something that was sort of timeless, like and which is really fucking like, when you listen to punk bands, it sounds easy right here just like oh, it's just three chords or whatever. But to do it right takes a lot of fucking effort. And like a lot of that's not timeless. There's

a lot of punk music that's definitely not timeless, you

know? Well, that's a thing. There's bands that age. Well, there's bands that don't you know what I mean? Like, well, I'm wearing the shirt right now. And I think we've talked about this before, but like, going to see integrity. You're like, you're like okay, this this fucking aged really well. And I don't know if it's because Baldwin is definitely insane. So like, I'm sure that he was like, pedantic is fuck about, like, have the recordings as well, but that aged well. It's hard to do. And I guess maybe it's luck of the draw bit. But anyway, that's sort of what we wanted to do and just took a lot of time to do it. And yeah, so flightless is putting it out. And how

did you get involved with flightless?

Okay, there was some weird thing where a booking agent from London reached out to us so I got this email that was just like, oh, like Eric from from flightless like told me to hit you up and said that you were you guys were good or what? I'd be interested in like helping you book a tour and then like, Goddess sort of in touch with like, our like, I don't even know if their current booking agent anymore because I don't know what the state of anything is anymore. But this dude from from Berlin, and that was sort of the introduction to it or something, I guess. But then I looked like I know Eric and Benny and stuff. But they were just interested in hearing the record and it was just kind of this thing of like, either they're gonna put it out or not like, and eventually we just finished it and sent it to them. They're like, yep, we're fucking down. So I'm not sure what's gonna happen like in terms of like a record release gig or whatever, but I've most likely will not be playing it, which is a fucking huge bummer. But I mean, it is what it is, you know, like, I'm happy to, it'd be, it'd be interesting to watch the videos of it. At some point. If there's anybody that posts about it. They'll just be like, Oh, this could have been made. But um, yeah, we'll see though. Like, I don't know.

Do you feel like you also mentioned in your write up for the Further saying, talking about nostalgia of the old world in the middle of a pandemic, talking about like these things and where you're at right now, is nostalgia. Is this something? Like? Is it something you think about often? Or is it just something that you've had to accept? So you put it to the side? In terms of thinking about these these things?

Is it something that comes up? I think like it, like we all do that, you know, don't me, like at points in time you look back, and, you know, like, we were saying just before about, you know, making records or going on tour, like, that's nostalgic in a way as well, you just look back on things differently. And you're like, oh, Things are different now.


So you kind of, by default have to do that. But yeah, I mean, like me doing the book now is not wasn't, it wasn't a, it wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to do this now. Because of this. It was, I've got fucking nothing else going on. So I might as well do this take the time to do something worthwhile, you know. So that's sort of the I like the timing of it isn't necessarily like it was sort of like an accident, or just like, it does sort of feel nostalgic. But I think that's just like, a result of the world we live in. And not necessarily. Yeah, what I intended at all, I mean, it was just me document names, because I knew that I wanted to, and I thought it was important enough to

when someone brings up Australian underground music. What are the bands that just pop into your head?

Yeah, I mean, there's just like, so many. There's so many examples of bands that will age well, you know. Yeah. Like, to me, like, I mean, like, his, his current is say, like, total control are I mean, like, they'll probably, they'll probably age well, and that's sort of, like a lot of into a lot of people I think too, because it's, I mean, it's fairly accessible. You know, but, you know, there's like, to me, like a band, like exacq is, like, one of the most unique bands to come out of the city, because, like, they have this air of post punk and it's sort of dubby but and it just sounds like them, you know what I mean? And then there's just like, I mean, there's, there's so many different genres in Melbourne. So it's hard to like pinpoint anything, you know, but like in terms of punk, I mean, there's just, again, there's, I think there's just too much Yeah, or not too much. But there's just so much that it's impossible to like, like, what's the sounds like, people say Australia has a sound, but I don't really think it does. It's just fucking all over the place.

I think Australia has a lot of different sounds, but there's still something about everything that's kind of Australian in a way. It's like just kind of like this, like a little bit of like a, like a sheep, you know,

what I used to say about it, this is a thing that I had sort of come to the conclusion of, after being around and around here for so long. And like watching bands go through the process of playing together playing gigs, and like recording and being really like, regimented, and like demoing things before and etc, etc, and being crazy about it, and then releasing something that was just like, yeah, that's fine. The thing about, like, a bunch of Australian bands that are at least people that I know, is just, it's really fucking loose, like, people don't care about the details of stuff as much. And it's just about writing good songs, knowing how to play them, it's just like, it doesn't matter what app you're using, it doesn't matter what microphone you're using to do your vocals or like, you know, I mean, there's just like this extra looseness that kind of gives things a bit of momentum maybe. And its own energy. Yeah, you know, like, like, like, this is not exactly what I mean. But like, I used to say, I was like, God, why people sound Australian because they fucking wasted all the time. Which is obviously not the case for everyone. But it's, it's it does apply at points, you know, like,

I Yeah, tell me about the tape. Um, yeah, so

the tape a it was actually the cocoa from loses sort of idea because they're, they're, they're doing the launch or whatever. He's like, Oh, we should do something else. He's like, how about like, tape?

Did you hit up every band?

Well, that was the thing like At first I was like, Oh, yeah, I can make a tape I can make a mixtape no problem. You know, like, I was just, I was like, I'll put in song and then he was, he suggested He's like, No, you should just ask them to pick a random song. And then make a cool mixtape or whatever. Which initially, I'm not gonna lie. I was like, that sounds like a pain in the ass. Which it kinda was but in the end, oddly, it was like really fit worked out really fucking well like, like more than I could imagine to the point where I've listened to the tape like, like a half dozen times just on my own time because the songs submitted were just all really they weren't all like crazy deep cuts but it was just like it was just a good mix of shit and I just kind of arranged it so it made sense and you know, it's got some like songs that probably no one's ever heard like, as I like Mikey young like sent me like The song that I was like I couldn't even like find it online. Yeah, which classic him I guess but, but the whole thing flows real well and it's just like a good random mixtape. So it achieved its goal. But yeah, it was interesting to have to like sort of hit up everyone from here it was like, you know, like 40 people being like a and it was so confusing for people as well. They were like one of our songs. I was like no read the email. It's like, yeah, that's very specifically like any song at all. But anyway, it worked out I had to cut so much of it unfortunately. Why? Because it's an hour long tape and it didn't actually didn't even dawn on me to be like, oh, like how long? And you know, people had submitted like, seven minutes songs and I was like, This is not gonna fly. So anyway, I trimmed it down to an hour and you know, whatever. It wasn't that much work for anyone. They just had to pick a song.

Thanks for listening in. And I hope you enjoyed the interview with Dave foreseer and this episode of the madness shine underground. If you want to get in contact hit me up at Llitmus dot Media